tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post6833103639347695..comments2024-03-17T03:51:46.681-04:00Comments on Hardcore Gaming 101 - Blog: Adventure, a game released in the year of wedontknow; or: Wikipedia continues to be a danger to video game historiography and should never be used as a sourceDiscoalucardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04206257399887664488noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-57325391588259226732015-02-02T20:03:07.649-05:002015-02-02T20:03:07.649-05:00"...we haven't used ANY interviews where ..."...we haven't used ANY interviews where a 2nd and possibly a 3rd source reiterated the very same event with the same details." - Curt Vendel<br /><br />I've been interviewing former classic game designers for over 20 years now, and both Vendel and Goldberg have been lifting information from my interviews for years. Here's just the latest example of them quoting something but intentionally not crediting me for it:<br />http://atariage.com/forums/topic/232660-pac-man-review-from-1982/?p=3167178Scottithhttp://2600connection.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-69334720629634899622012-11-28T09:26:09.442-05:002012-11-28T09:26:09.442-05:00As I wrote in Phoenix: the release of Superman fol...As I wrote in Phoenix: the release of Superman followed Space Invaders, and the release of Adventure followed Superman (although Adventure was coded first).Leonard Hermanhttp://www.rolentapress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-6623829270983174092012-11-06T18:15:42.958-05:002012-11-06T18:15:42.958-05:00"New at Sears for Christmas 1980"
http:..."New at Sears for Christmas 1980"<br /><br />http://www.flickr.com/photos/wishbook/3114585830/in/set-72157608220146364Scottithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758802163566683045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-79454958731385452542012-11-05T23:56:49.540-05:002012-11-05T23:56:49.540-05:00If the game were a big Christmas 1979 release, it ...If the game were a big Christmas 1979 release, it seems odd that it isn't in the 1979 Sears Wish Book...<br /><br />http://www.wishbookweb.com/1979SearsCWeb/pages/SearsWishbook.1979C.P651.htm<br />http://www.wishbookweb.com/1979SearsCWeb/pages/SearsWishbook.1979C.P652.htm<br />http://www.wishbookweb.com/1979SearsCWeb/pages/SearsWishbook.1979C.P653.htm<br /><br />Of course, these catalogs are printed well in advance, so you could still make a case that Atari might not have planned Adventure's release early enough to make the Wish Book. You might also suggest that only certain games make it in the catalog, but compare the ones they chose to Adventure. Really?<br /><br />That's all circumstantial, but I don't remember Adventure's release coming around Christmas; pretty sure it was more like sprint, or maybe summer as others have said, and the Wish Book bears out what I recall to some extent.Russ Perry Jrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-51775672631876134212012-10-30T23:45:49.571-04:002012-10-30T23:45:49.571-04:00Great article, derboo. I've researched this v...Great article, derboo. I've researched this very subject before, and Adventure's release date was indeed 1980. Atari's catalogs are very reliable in regards to deducing a game's true release date, much more than the copyright date on the game's packaging, or even the one onscreen (as is the case with VCS Pac-Man's). Also, I personally remember all too well when Adventure was released, and that was Spring/Summer 1980. And you couldn't be more right about Marty Goldberg's lack of journalistic integrity in regards to his abuse of Wikipedia to support his own, unsupported opinions. If this book of his is ever actually released, readers should absolutely second-guess anything said within it.no1vcsfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13487868255295787828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-79272494612504589682012-09-18T03:13:25.481-04:002012-09-18T03:13:25.481-04:00nice blog nice review thanks for provide
About a...nice blog nice review thanks for provide<br /><br /><a href="http://www.aboutagame.com/" rel="nofollow"> About a Game </a>About a gamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14832021995025972097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-32303182027202849542012-09-06T17:11:57.197-04:002012-09-06T17:11:57.197-04:00Hi Curt,
thanks for your reply and clarification....Hi Curt,<br /><br />thanks for your reply and clarification. Even though some of my statements may have ended up a bit snarky, of course I'll be giving the book a fair chance when it becomes available (it isn't so far, is it?), and as I've written, I've also seen your partner do good work in the field.<br /><br />I even understand the need to set limits for the attention put to minute details when it comes to publications, like the Retro Gamer articles were Adventure was also listed as a 1979 game. What I don't get is the fervor with which the date is defended on Wikipedia, which if I've read you right you've just confirmed once again is everything but certain.<br /><br />A question, though: Will the book contain a list of sources and/or extensive footnotes/endnotes?derboohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01288535824552284145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-46289358220137430482012-09-04T16:01:24.325-04:002012-09-04T16:01:24.325-04:00Hi Derboo...
Good article and you bring up some v...Hi Derboo...<br /><br />Good article and you bring up some valid points, and it reinforces the old saying - just because its on the internet, doesn't mean its true.<br /><br />I would like to make a point on one thing you mention, regarding interviewing people and how you are a bit critical of my co-author Marty on the use of interviews, something perhaps not clearly explained is that, while we did do hundreds of interviews, other then using personal stories, when it came to factual recollections and events that required very specific recounting, we haven't used ANY interviews where a 2nd and possibly a 3rd source reiterated the very same event with the same details. The process of researching, checking and cross-checking the book has been painfully methodical and it has been a tremendous undertaking, so I just wanted to share with you some very important details.<br /><br />We even went so far as to track down an original fan folded green/white print out of Adventure from its compiling on a PDP-11 computer and unfortunately the printout didn't have a date on it, so believe me, we really went all out in tracking leads and hitting some dead ends to uncover as much detail as possible.<br /><br />Curt<br />www.ataribook.com<br /><br />Curt Vendelhttp://www.ataribook.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-38132146926523293252012-07-31T11:43:08.200-04:002012-07-31T11:43:08.200-04:00Not really. As a source I understand a work used a...Not really. As a source I understand a work used as reference for actual information. One could also say the main problem with Wikipedia is the image it has pushed for itself. People now use it as an encyclopedia, but it has no hope whatsoever of living up to that name. Even when dealing with the best-researched and -sourced articles, Wikipedia at its best cannot hope to be more than a glorified link list, simply because its guidelines make no sense, do nothing to prevent bullshit from getting in, but have proven a powerful hindrance in taking it out again.derboohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01288535824552284145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-27404348885164944412012-07-31T02:11:34.503-04:002012-07-31T02:11:34.503-04:00Great read. The only problem I had was the article...Great read. The only problem I had was the article title implies that you dismiss Wikipedia as a source for video game historiography entirely, while in the article you stated the problems with a single article and maybe some more, and in the final paragraph you've admitted that it's a great tool for this purpose if you carefully read the citations. I feel the title is a bit misleading...Gezegondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15824564740415027716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-40160891902816102772012-07-22T04:37:48.354-04:002012-07-22T04:37:48.354-04:00It's disgusting how often the egos of individu...It's disgusting how often the egos of individual wikipedian editors overtakes little things like empirical evidence. It's also sort of amazing we can't even remember the release date of a game that was released about a mere 30 years ago.KaLhttp://www.kalyart.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-14919873945176967422012-07-20T13:27:57.917-04:002012-07-20T13:27:57.917-04:00If I want facts about a game, I generally hit up M...If I want facts about a game, I generally hit up MobyGames first (who put the date at 1980). The issue on this game is compounded by copyright dates on the physical materials. The original cartridges say 1978, the original instruction manual (rev 1 - sold through Sears) had no copyright date, and rev 2 of the instruction manual says 1980.<br /><br />It would make sense to copyright the code at the project start(1978) and the manual at point of publication (1980), but without finding a physical press release or news article (like, in a real newspaper) stating the date I don't think we'll ever know.SickHippienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-1566771549664768162012-07-20T04:27:43.554-04:002012-07-20T04:27:43.554-04:00I think this is also one reason for Wikipedia. Whe...I think this is also one reason for Wikipedia. When there's some information about everything, it always drives some enthusiast to find out more, and then everybody wins.Manu Pärssinenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00490145024126465407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-46862470450432770592012-07-20T04:17:42.741-04:002012-07-20T04:17:42.741-04:00A well written article, which certainly highlights...A well written article, which certainly highlights the need to add some salt to any information; especially if it has any historical context... even with physical "proof". There are always contradictory examples for any of these.<br /><br />The likely only way to be "conclusive" here is to have (multiple) invoices, procurement order forms, etc., from customers, retailers or manufacturers in order to determine a release date as any other method would be 'whimsical'. An example would be a title having a certain "copyright" and yet was "released" during the prior Christmas season...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-85202150451220685982012-07-19T17:09:51.324-04:002012-07-19T17:09:51.324-04:00@ Fatsquatch: Added the current adress into the te...@ Fatsquatch: Added the current adress into the text.<br /><br />I also updated linking to a tiny snippet from the latest issue of Retro Gamer, which demonstrates that the editor in question actually can do good research, if he wants to.derboohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01288535824552284145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-51486593681183143572012-07-19T00:26:40.428-04:002012-07-19T00:26:40.428-04:00I don't even know what's real anymore!
Th...I don't even know what's real anymore!<br /><br />This article is a great reminder to read things carefully and critically, and I'll probably link it to people who don't even care about video games all that much.John B.http://www.shigeruslist.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135815543912646655.post-33413800149068560242012-07-18T03:00:52.062-04:002012-07-18T03:00:52.062-04:00Nice article, and thanks for the mention and link,...Nice article, and thanks for the mention and link, Derboo!<br /><br />However, The Jaded Gamer has moved a time or two (or three) since our interview with Warren Robinett 9+ years ago, and if you'd like to update the archive.org link in your article, here's the correct URL:<br /><br />http://thejadedgamer.com/of-dragons-and-easter-eggs-a-chat-with-warren-robinett/<br /><br />Thanks again!Fatsquatchhttp://thejadedgamer.comnoreply@blogger.com